tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post3776980595173152038..comments2024-03-22T14:23:37.631+00:00Comments on Hiccupps: Modal-Driven DevelopmentJames Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01185262890702402757noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post-25219800062326956662012-08-04T10:38:52.842+01:002012-08-04T10:38:52.842+01:00Clearing this up off-line proved very useful. It&#...Clearing this up off-line proved very useful. It's worth stressing that the exercise emphasised the problems these modal verbs can cause.<br /><br />You attempted to create a finely nuanced ambiguity. I inferred a different lack of clarity, missing the ambiguous interpretation you were trying to point towards.<br /><br />So I got it wrong when my senses were tuned to spot ambiguity. How much more likely would it have been for me to infer the wrong meaning in a normal, pressurised work situation? A point well made!<br /><br />James ChristieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post-67592488500354633142012-08-04T06:25:12.712+01:002012-08-04T06:25:12.712+01:00Hi James,
Thanks for the comments. We discussed t...Hi James,<br /><br />Thanks for the comments. We discussed this further in email and here's a summary:<br /><br />I think you've got a point about the examples although I've heard and seen both forms, so I do think they're legitimate. Some emphasis can help to disambiguate:<br /><br />"Performance is awful, we <b>can not</b> do A" <br /><br />"We're doing A now but we <b>can</b> not do A" <br /><br />The second example is probably the weaker and gave you more trouble, to the extent that you didn't see the reading I was intending. This is reflected in your restatement of it which seems stronger than "we might or might not do A" to me.<br /><br />You noted that this discussion reinforces how treacherous and confusing these modal verbs can be and that if you saw them in a spec or bug report you'd object that they weren't clear. I think that's true to the extent that the reader recognises an ambiguity at all - as in the final example. <br /><br />We've agreed on an alternative which preserves the ambiguity for both of us and seems more natural and I've edited it in.<br /><br />Thanks again, I enjoyed the discussion and I think it's improved the post.<br /><br />JamesJames Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01185262890702402757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post-24560820983362569902012-08-02T11:48:29.471+01:002012-08-02T11:48:29.471+01:00Interesting point. The distinction between epistem...Interesting point. The distinction between epistemic and deontic modality is important. I'd noted the problem, but not really thought it through in those formal terms. <br /><br />I think your examples could be a bit clearer. I don't think the ambiguity you mention is likely to be expressed in the way you quote, and I think that detracts from your important message. <br /><br />I've tried restating them here to make them look superficially clearer while retaining the ambiguity. Have I got it right?<br /><br />"We can't do A because performance is awful"<br /><br />"We are doing A with the old application, but we can't do it with this new one".<br /><br />Or is that not what you're trying to say?<br /><br />James ChristieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post-73776156486570341522012-05-18T09:31:35.233+01:002012-05-18T09:31:35.233+01:00Hi Kimball,
It's not intended to. Hiccupps is...Hi Kimball,<br /><br />It's not intended to. Hiccupps is the name of the blog but the content isn't restricted to just that heuristic.<br /><br />JamesJames Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01185262890702402757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1733784724667491523.post-5299671798115997812012-05-17T21:01:55.258+01:002012-05-17T21:01:55.258+01:00I fail to see how this post applies to the HICCUPP...I fail to see how this post applies to the HICCUPPS(F) heuristic model.Kimball Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079693739035596409noreply@blogger.com